Wes Howard-Brook on the Religion of Empire vs. the Religion of Creation in the Bible and Beyond
“We need not only to exit empire (superpower), we need to exit the idea of empire.” The saying is as right-on as it is difficult to do. Author and teacher Wes Howard-Brook helps us enormously in leaving the idea of empire.
When I read his book, “Come Out My People”: God’s Call Out of Empire In the Bible and Beyond, I recognized quickly that what he refers to as the “religion of empire” and the “religion of creation” parallel what I’d been working with as MultiEarth and OneEarth worldviews. He noted the same after reading a manuscript of my book, From Egos to Eden. He wrote:
"I had the pleasure on this quiet Sunday to finish your manuscript. There is so much resonance between your one/multi-earth and my “religion of creation/religion of empire” paradigm. But interestingly, you get there using quite a different set of tools than I did. Good for you and your readers, as we clearly need many angles of approach to the necessary work before us as a species."
Following the interview below are a couple of links to other longer interviews where you can find much more of Wes’ lifestory. But briefly, Wes grew up in a secular Jewish home. He became an attorney, serving the federal and Washington state governments. He was counsel to the U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee from 1981-83. Then he shifted toward biblical study, theology, and spiritual practice. Today, he and his wife, Sue Ferguson Johnson, collaborate in the ministry, Abide in Me, which seeks transformation in individuals and communities by bringing together the mystical and the prophetic, the inner and outer journeys with God. Wes also teaches theology and scripture at Seattle University and at churches and gatherings around the Pacific Northwest and the U.S.
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Lee: You’ve written a book, “Come Out My People”: God’s Call Out of Empire in the Bible and Beyond, on how the Bible is a composition of two religions (worldviews) in tension, the religion of empire and the religion of creation. How did you come to this understanding?
Wes: The initial connecting point was the image of "the great city," as found both in Genesis (chapter 10) and Revelation (chapters 11, 17, 18). In each case, "the great city" expresses a human social order that stands in opposition to YHWH. Essentially, it is what we call "empire."
At the same time, I knew that the long monarchy narrative seems to embrace social and economic hierarchy in the name of YHWH. Once one becomes aware of these opposing viewpoints, one can quickly see that there is a pattern of two, opposing ways of being that each claim YHWH's authority and will to justify it. This led me to reconsider the relationships among the biblical texts as two different "religions": the religion of empire and the religion of creation. Then and now, these two opposing perspectives argue about where God's authority lies.
Lee: How widely is this understanding embraced among academics? in congregations? among faith-based activists?
Wes: There is a widespread understanding among scholars that there is a conflict among biblical texts. As far as I'm aware, I'm the only one (besides you!) who has conceived of it this way. The "wrong" way is to see "the Old Testament" as equivalent to "Judaism" and "the New Testament" as equivalent to "Christianity." This idea is wrong at every level, a theme I explored in the follow-up book as well, Empire Baptized, engaging the post-biblical centuries up to the time of Augustine.
In churches? I expect that this idea is rather threatening to churches that are committed to the idea that all of the Bible is "inspired." That single notion, based as it is on a single verse in a letter that is almost certainly a forgery (2 Timothy 3.16), has caused more confusion and damage than probably any other single verse in the Bible.
Some activists groups, such as the Catholic Worker Movement, have embraced this conception. It shouldn't be too surprising that people who are battling for justice on the ground "get it" in a way that academics and church workers might not so easily, for very different reasons.
Lee: You’ve also written a sequel, Empire Baptized, with the provocative subtitle, How the Church Embraced What Jesus Rejected. What feedback are you getting about how it is most helpful to people?
Wes: Honestly, there hasn't been a lot of public feedback on Empire Baptized. One scholar criticized it for being "too hard" on the church writers. I'm not sure what that means, though. If one quotes them directly and shows how their ideas are the opposite of those attributed to Jesus in the Gospels, is that being "hard" on them? Or is it revealing the uncomfortable truth that "Christianity" was intellectually founded on Platonically-oriented, anti-Jewish men whose commitments to their philosophical presuppositions were stronger than their commitment to hear Jesus on his own terms?
Lee: How do the two frames you use, religion of empire and religion of creation, help us understand what's happening in the world today?
Wes: My undergrad students are required to do a project on how the two religions play out across history or in the world today. They find it very helpful for understanding the conflicts among "Christians" over things like war, climate change, immigration and so forth. I wish the mainstream media could hear this, as they so often reduce their engagement with "Christianity" to the most extreme, anti-intellectual and narrow-minded forms.
Lee: In Come Out My People, you often refer to the practice(s) of jubilee in the Bible as well as some other writings of that time. How does jubilee fit with the two different religions—the religion of empire and the religion of creation?
Wes: Yes, jubilee is at the very heart of the "religion of creation," not just in the literal, fifty year release proscribed in Leviticus, but as a way of seeking to live in harmony with God, people and all of creation. Luke makes it a central theme, of course, not just in Jesus' proclamation in Nazareth of the fulfillment of the jubilee promise in Isaiah 61, but throughout his ministry. We like to speak of the "four Ds of jubilee": release from debt, demons, disease and death. These are all forms of the "new start" that jubilee envisions. Jubilee strikes at the very heart of the "religion of empire," which is almost always about maintaining various kinds of "debts." Recall how we used to speak of a prison sentence as "paying your debt to society." And yet, convicted felons remain in debt to society forever, losing the right to vote and other opportunities available to others. Empire doesn't "release" people from their debts very easily. We see this theme expressed today also in pop culture contexts, such as the film "Fight Club" and the TV show, "Mr. Robot," both of which features heroes who seek to take down the corporations who hold massive debt. But we also see it in the small, daily practice of forgiveness/letting go in our everyday relationships. We might never see a massive, society-wide forgiveness of debts, but we who claim the Way of Jesus can and must model such practices of release as they arise.
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I highly recommend reading and listening to two other interviews with Wes. For a much longer written interview with Wes on these subjects see https://poserorprophet.wordpress.com/2016/12/02/creation-to-empire-and-back-again-an-interview-with-wes-howard-brook/.
Or listen to John Cleary interview Wes on ABC Local Sunday Nights at http://www.abc.net.au/sundaynights/stories/s3812783.htm
“Come Out My People”: God’s Call Out of Empire In the Bible and Beyond (Maryknoll: Orbis, 2010)
Empire Baptized: How the Church Embraced What Jesus Rejected (2nd to 5th centuries) (Maryknoll: Orbis Books, 2016)
